'Hardball's' College Tour with John McCain

(APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS:  Next question, fire away.

Thank you, that was great.

Fire away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Senator McCain, you‘ve always been a very vocal critic of torture.  So why did you sign the Military Commissions Act—or vote for the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which many people say increases the president‘s power to detain and torture suspected terrorists.

(APPLAUSE)

MCCAIN:  Thank you. 

We had quite a period of strong, spirited discussion with the administration about that.  We passed, as you know, some months ago a thing called the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibits any cruel, inhumane treatment, and in this legislation we made it very clear that that still pertained.  I won‘t go through all the details of it, but it does not allow torture, and it will not allow torture. 

FREE VIDEO McCain: I would never allow torture Oct. 18: Sen. John McCain answers questions about the Military Commission Act and sexual discrimination in the military at the Hardball College Tour at Iowa State. Hardball

And at the same time, I think you do understand that there are some people who are very, very bad people, and I think that to continue a program for some of them, without torture, is something that we can‘t deprive the president of the United States of.  But I think we struck the right balance, and I can assure you I would never agree to anything that I believe could allow torture.  I promise you that.

MATTHEWS:  What do you remember—I know you must remember a lot from five and a half years as a prisoner—if you had to testify and say what you remember about that horror, and all that loneliness and all that, perhaps, despair, did you remember anything that you could bring to the table, clinically, and say, I know about torture, that you can‘t know because you didn‘t have it?

MCCAIN:  I could, but I didn‘t because I don‘t think it‘s a fair thing for me to do.  I think it was more appropriate for me to get five former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 35 former generals and admirals, high-ranking...

MATTHEWS:  But why is that better testimony than a person who had been through it? 

MCCAIN:  Because it—you know, people say, well, what exactly happened to you?  Well, what—you just get into—use your own personal experience as some kind of advantage, I don‘t think was fair.  I wanted to fight this battle out on the grounds that America is better than any other country in the world.  We‘re better than our enemies, and if we torture them, then nobody will know the difference between the two countries.  And that was the fundamental reason. 

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MATTHEWS:  I just want to say...

MCCAIN:  I meant to say between ourselves and our enemies.

MATTHEWS:  But I will say it a million times, thank you for you service.

But bigger than that, politically, it‘s interesting that you and John Warner and some of the others, Lindsay Graham, who was a JAG, you really do have that military experience in these kinds of cases, and I think it‘s so valuable. 

Next question?

Next question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  As we just demonstrated, our military needs as many fine young men and women as it can get, so why do we still have a policy that discriminates the basis of declared sexual orientation?

(APPLAUSE)

MATTHEWS:  There‘s a seat over there. 

MCCAIN:  We have to have the most effective and professional military that we can possibly obtain.  I listen to people like General Colin Powell, Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and literally every military leader that I know.  And they testified before Congress that they felt the “don‘t ask, don‘t tell” policy was the most appropriate way to conduct ourselves in the military.  A policy that has been effective.  It has worked. 

Our all-volunteer force—this is another argument against the draft

is the finest military we have ever had in our history.  We have the most qualified, the bravest and most capable military we‘ve ever had in our history, and so I think that the policy is working.  And I understand the opposition to it, and I‘ve had these debates and discussions, but the day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says, Senator, we ought to change the policy, then I think we ought to consider seriously changing it because those leaders in the military are the ones we give the responsibility to.

MATTHEWS:  OK.  We‘ll be right back with much more from Iowa State with Senator John McCain on the HARDBALL College Tour, only on MSNBC.

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